tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817242166326386497.post2970687064525398676..comments2024-03-24T16:47:21.470-07:00Comments on A World of Englishes: Intelligibility and familiarity RULE! apparently ...Jane Setterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08213725380324824711noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817242166326386497.post-30102423826043814612012-03-21T11:15:11.167-07:002012-03-21T11:15:11.167-07:00"Would you please sell me two third-class tic..."Would you please sell me two third-class tickets from London to Brighton and back again, and I will pay you the usual fare for such tickets." —Otto Jespersen, <i>The Philosophy of Grammar</i>John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817242166326386497.post-16651328488435948092012-02-20T04:28:10.063-08:002012-02-20T04:28:10.063-08:00Forgot to say "thank you!" for the first...Forgot to say "thank you!" for the first comment. :DJane Setterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08213725380324824711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817242166326386497.post-56801450742596552452012-02-20T02:29:27.116-08:002012-02-20T02:29:27.116-08:00You go ahead adding your two cents!
Yes, exactly ...You go ahead adding your two cents!<br /><br />Yes, exactly - one usually adapts to one's linguistic environment; you code-switch/mix or style-shift. It's perfectly natural. However, some speakers just don't realise they need to - or, even, are unable to - switch to a more intelligible style or code. <br /><br />A lot of this has to do with your experience of various linguistic communities; if you've never had a need to use a different style/code up to a particularly point then, when it does happen, you may well not be equipped to deal with the situation linguistically. This can lead to resentment / reticence, as it moves people out of their comfort zone. We see this in the UK when people have to deal with overseas call centres.<br /><br />Someone I follow on Twitter said he persuaded the students to try using one "style" for the whole weekend to see what happened, and he tried it, too. He writes: "I did 'over-excited lecturing style' - this confused the man at Boots quite a lot when I asked him for some paracetamol...". :DJane Setterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08213725380324824711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817242166326386497.post-26891349948126545332012-02-20T02:19:53.296-08:002012-02-20T02:19:53.296-08:00Yes, got that. :DYes, got that. :DJane Setterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08213725380324824711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817242166326386497.post-46495599425018689382012-02-20T02:19:39.150-08:002012-02-20T02:19:39.150-08:00I'm not going to get drawn into a discussion o...I'm not going to get drawn into a discussion on the merits (or not) of interviewing footballers ... ;D<br /><br />3. OK, so perhaps "maximally intelligible" is better in this context than "clear", where MI means "to the vast majority of speakers of English around the world". I'm not entirely sure I'm happy with the term "maximally intelligible", though.<br /><br />There are also issues with the word "intelligibility" vs e.g. "comprehensibility" ... I'm not going to get into that debate, either.<br /><br />1. Does this deal with Q.1, too? And yes, speakers are (usually) intelligible in their own speech community, but this often compounds the problem. HKE speakers, for example, use HKE with each other in certain settings and can understand each other, but are puzzled when someone else also using a variety of English can't understand them. On a related point, the media are up in arms when someone like Cheryl Cole gets rejected by the US ostensibly because of her accent.<br /><br />I don't mean by this that one necessarily has to change; if you want to be understood by speakers of other varieties of English than your own community, though, you've got to. Having the complacent attitude that one speaks e.g. British English so that's all right is not good enough. <br /><br />I think that also deals with Q. 2, but let me know if not.<br /><br />4. It's interesting to know it's going on in other language groups, too. A lot of this is politically / socio-culturally motivated, of course. I'd like to think we're moving away from this in English but I don't think we're there yet.Jane Setterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08213725380324824711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817242166326386497.post-26293136264519902962012-02-18T17:23:08.465-08:002012-02-18T17:23:08.465-08:00What prejudice ! ;=)What prejudice ! ;=)eamonnmcdonaghhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07897129268585154483noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817242166326386497.post-60167323416430665252012-02-18T15:53:09.728-08:002012-02-18T15:53:09.728-08:00Hi Jane,
Very good writing. I live in Asia and am...Hi Jane,<br /><br />Very good writing. I live in Asia and am open to the variety of Englishes that is spoken here. <br /><br />If we were in a foreign country, say Malaysia, where while English is a second language, a vast majority of Malaysians speak the Manglish variety, which one takes precedence - your need to be understood by the locals, or the importance of upholding the 'proper' English, at the risk of not being understood at all by the local?<br /><br />I personally would start code-switching when I find myself in such a situation. Just my two cents. :)Zaie Hamzahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10088411510157174374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817242166326386497.post-83684362271040040062012-02-18T02:47:47.068-08:002012-02-18T02:47:47.068-08:00As regards 4. I would like to ask just two questio...As regards 4. I would like to ask just two questions:<br />A) What's the point of any footballer (whatever their nationality) being interviewed? and B) What can you expect from anyone involved in interviewing footballers?Beatrice Portinarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13626472955669713053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817242166326386497.post-35436208351889122202012-02-17T11:14:42.731-08:002012-02-17T11:14:42.731-08:00of course I meant,
"I don't think we’d...of course I meant, <br /><br />"I don't think we’d be doing ourselves ..."eamonnmcdonaghhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07897129268585154483noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817242166326386497.post-41546318354265470672012-02-17T11:12:49.703-08:002012-02-17T11:12:49.703-08:00excellent blog.
1.
"if a speaker of English...excellent blog.<br /><br />1.<br /><br />"if a speaker of English is clearly spoken..."<br /><br />but clearly spoken in whose view? Barring some particular personal problem or idiosyncracy, isn't the speaker necessarily clearly spoken for members of his/her speech community?<br /><br />2.<br />“However, this does not mean that the NVE is necessarily intelligible, and it is not always the case that it is going to be very familiar to all other speakers of English. “<br />Again, speakers of the NVE must be intelligible to each other, no? It doesn’t seem to make much sense to describe a variety as not being intelligible if hundreds of thousands or millions of people are speaking it evey day, even if many others, NS and not, might have problems understanding it.<br />3.<br />“…but I'm fortunate enough to speak a variety or ideolect which, I'm told by a lot of people, is very clear…”<br /><br />Instead of “very clear”, wouldn’t it be better to go for “which people from a wide variety of language backgrounds find easy to understand”? <br />I think we’d be doing ourselves - as teachers or learners - many favors by using terms like "clear", which may come loaded with all sorts of baggage.<br /><br />4.<br />Some interesting parallels in all this with Spanish. Many Spanish media still refuse to accept the legitimacy of Latin American vocab. and grammar. If an Argentine footballer gives an interview to a Spanish paper he may either have what he says silently “translated” into what are regarded as more acceptable forms , or, if the paper concerned feels vey enlightened, just have his words speckled with italics, to signal their supposedly exotic and deviant nature.eamonnmcdonaghhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07897129268585154483noreply@blogger.com